The Modern Lawyer Podcast
The Modern Lawyer Podcast

Everything today’s modern lawyer needs to know about the future of legal practice.

Know someone shaping the future of law?

Recommend a guest
Hosted by
Anand Upadhye Attorney & VP of Business Development, Casetext

Hosted by
Anand Upadhye Attorney & VP of Business Development, Casetext

Season 3 Ep. 3:
Evangelize From Within
Todays conversation is with Monet Fauntleroy, Director of Legal Service Delivery at Cooley. Monet has been on several sides of the legal technology ecosystems, starting out as a prosecutor, moving to a legal solutions provider, and finally to a large firm. At Cooley, Monet and her team of innovators evaluate new technologies and solve technology problems for the thousands of attorneys at the firm.

In this episode, Monet talks about the challenges of evangelizing from within a large law firm, what we have to learn from junior attorney fresh out of school, and how her firm has rapidly adapted to working remotely, in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Season 3 Ep. 2:
Justice by Smartphone
We are honored to share our conversation is with Shannon Salter, the chair of the Civil Resolution Tribunal. Through their online platform, injured parties can file and serve a complaint in a number of different causes of action, all from their smartphone. In this episode Shannon explains how she was selected to lead the CRT, the challenges she’s faced along the way, and what the future of human-centered, virtual courts may be.

Season 3 Ep. 1:
A Robot Walks Into a Courtroom
We are honored to present our conversation with Richard Susskind, one of the world’s leading intellectuals on technology in the law and the future of work. In our conversation, Richard considers the future of our court system, the incentives for law firms to modernize, and his prediction that tomorrow’s core legal jobs will revolve around technology and the creation of systems.
Season 3 Ep. 1:
A Robot Walks Into a Courtroom
We are honored to present our conversation with Richard Susskind, one of the world’s leading intellectuals on technology in the law and the future of work. In our conversation, Richard considers the future of our court system, the incentives for law firms to modernize, and his prediction that tomorrow’s core legal jobs will revolve around technology and the creation of systems.

Season 2 Ep. 16:
It’s Not All Perry Mason
We are honored to share our conversation with David Wilkins, a Law Professor at Harvard Law School and the Faculty Director of the Center on The Legal Profession. Afterwards, he had the chance to sit down with Professor Wilkins to talk about how Richard Nixon affected his legal career, three key forces affecting the legal industry, and how he educates students on the realities of legal practice. As it turns out, it’s not as glamorous as Perry Mason.

Season 2 Ep. 15:
Indicators and Intuition
Today we share our conversation with Evan Parker, a Ph.D statistics expert and founder of Parker Analytics. In this episode, Evan shares some surprising insights he has unearthed through looking at firm data, like how a good grade in torts is a better predictor of success than a good grade in contracts, and the key factors causing certain demographic groups at law firms to fall behind, and others to succeed.
Season 2 Ep. 15: Indicators and Intuition
Season 2 Ep. 15: Indicators and Intuition
Season 2 Ep. 15:
Indicators and Intuition
Today we share our conversation with Evan Parker, a Ph.D statistics expert and founder of Parker Analytics. In this episode, Evan shares some surprising insights he has unearthed through looking at firm data, like how a good grade in torts is a better predictor of success than a good grade in contracts, and the key factors causing certain demographic groups at law firms to fall behind, and others to succeed.

Season 2 Ep. 14: The 2 a.m. Idea
Season 2 Ep. 14:
The 2 a.m. Idea
Today we share our conversation with Haley Altman, founder and CEO of Doxly, which was recently acquired. In her role, Haley personally felt a pain point and looked to the market for a solution. Finding none, she founded Doxly, a company that manages corporate legal transactions. In this episode, Haley takes us through the conception, growth, and sale of her company, including all of the failures and triumphs along the way.

Season 2 Ep. 13:
The Modern Law Student
On today’s episode of the Modern Lawyer Podcast, I had the opportunity to talk to University of Dayton School of Law dean Andrew Strauss. In this episode, we hear Dean Strauss’s opinions on how on-demand online education can sometimes more effectively educate the modern law student than traditional classes, and the struggle inherent in balancing the traditions of legal academia with the demands of the new economy.
Season 2 Ep. 13: The Modern Law Student
Season 2 Ep. 13: The Modern Law Student
Season 2 Ep. 13:
The Modern Law Student
On today’s episode of the Modern Lawyer Podcast, I had the opportunity to talk to University of Dayton School of Law dean Andrew Strauss. In this episode, we hear Dean Strauss’s opinions on how on-demand online education can sometimes more effectively educate the modern law student than traditional classes, and the struggle inherent in balancing the traditions of legal academia with the demands of the new economy.

Season 2 Ep. 12: The Small Firm Guide to Marketing
Season 2 Ep. 12:
The Small Firm Guide to Marketing
On today’s episode of the Modern Lawyer Podcast, we speak with Karin Conroy, Legal Marketing Consultant and founder of Conroy Creative Counsel. In our conversation, we talk about marketing strategies for small and mid-size law firm attorneys. Karin provides us with guidance on how to create a prospective-client-focused website, aligning website visuals with each firm’s ideal client, and the demands of the modern prospective client operating in a world of limitless attorney options.

Season 2 Ep. 11:
The Next Generation GC
This episode’s guest is Bradley Gayton, the General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer of Ford Motor Company, ranked #12 in the Fortune 500. He’s interested in changing the business model in law. He’s curious and interested in the massive changes we are all witnessing in the legal industry. In this episode, Bradley shares his thoughts on outside counsel as “part of the family”, viewing a case from the perspective of business from cradle to grave, and promoting diversity not just at Ford but in the legal industry as a whole.
Season 2 Ep. 11: The Next Generation GC
Season 2 Ep. 11: The Next Generation GC
Season 2 Ep. 11:
The Next Generation GC
This episode’s guest is Bradley Gayton, the General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer of Ford Motor Company, ranked #12 in the Fortune 500. He’s interested in changing the business model in law. He’s curious and interested in the massive changes we are all witnessing in the legal industry. In this episode, Bradley shares his thoughts on outside counsel as “part of the family”, viewing a case from the perspective of business from cradle to grave, and promoting diversity not just at Ford but in the legal industry as a whole.

Season 2 Ep. 11: The A.I. Arms Race
Season 2 Ep. 11: The A.I. Arms Race
In this episode, we’re joined by Alex Lakatos, a litigation partner at Mayer Brown in Washington, DC. Alex organizes and speaks on AI in financial services symposia and events and discusses regulation of new AI technologies, AI-bias and the liability flowing from it, and how attorneys will interact with and shape AI in the near future.

Season 2 Ep. 10:
The Man-Shaped Woman Attorney
Today we are sharing our conversation with Christina Blacklaws, the President of The Law Society of England and Wales, (the equivalent of our American Bar Association). Throughout her career, Christina has been a champion for gender equality in law, alternative fee arrangements, and awareness of mental health issues in law. In our interview today, we discuss when and why women drop out of the profession, the impact of millennials in the work-place, and what she means by the concept of the “man-shaped woman” attorney.
Season 2 Ep. 10: The Man-Shaped Woman Attorney
Season 2 Ep. 10: The Man-Shaped Woman Attorney
Season 2 Ep. 10:
The Man-Shaped Woman Attorney
Today we are sharing our conversation with Christina Blacklaws, the President of The Law Society of England and Wales, (the equivalent of our American Bar Association). Throughout her career, Christina has been a champion for gender equality in law, alternative fee arrangements, and awareness of mental health issues in law. In our interview today, we discuss when and why women drop out of the profession, the impact of millennials in the work-place, and what she means by the concept of the “man-shaped woman” attorney.

Season 2 Ep. 9: The Indiana Jones Aspect
Season 2 Ep. 9: The Indiana Jones Aspect
Today we’re joined by Charles Frey, the Director of Library at elite law firm, Munge Tolles & Olson. In this episode, we talk about the evolution of the librarian function in law firms, assisted my metaphors randing from Indiana Jones, to chicken farming, and the library of Alexandria. Charlie talks about how librarians are increasingly expected to be experts, not just in retrieving information, but in evaluating new technologies and their use cases. We hope you enjoy our conversation.

Season 2 Ep. 8:
Fixing What You Didn’t Know Was Broken
What is a Chief Innovation Officer? I ask this question to Ali Shahidi, the Chief Innovation and Client Solutions Officer at AmLaw 100 law firm Sheppard Mullin. Combined that with his engineering background, he has world-class perspective on where the industry is going with respect to technology and automation. In this episode, we talk about what he does in his role, what problems he is looking to solve for his firm, and where law firms have gone wrong in the past. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Season 2 Ep. 8: Fixing What You Didn't Know Was Broken
Season 2 Ep. 8: Fixing What You Didn't Know Was Broken
Season 2 Ep. 8:
Fixing What You Didn’t Know Was Broken
What is a Chief Innovation Officer? I ask this question to Ali Shahidi, the Chief Innovation and Client Solutions Officer at AmLaw 100 law firm Sheppard Mullin. Combined that with his engineering background, he has world-class perspective on where the industry is going with respect to technology and automation. In this episode, we talk about what he does in his role, what problems he is looking to solve for his firm, and where law firms have gone wrong in the past. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Season 2 Ep. 7: The Startup Within Wilson
Season 2 Ep. 7:
The Startup Within Wilson
Today we talk to Kimball Parker, President of SixFifty, the technology subsidiary of top technology law firm Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati. In his role at the helm of SixFifty, he is able to create and provide solutions with minimal attorney time spent. We discuss collaborations with legal design labs at law schools and how they can contribute to addressing the severe gap between the supply of attorney time and the immense need for legal services. We hope you enjoy our conversation.

Season 2 Ep. 6:
Inside the Greenberg Innovation Lab
Marlene Gebauer, the Director of Strategic Legal Insights at Greenberg Traurig joins us on the podcast today. In this episode, Marlene shares how she ended up in her unique role at Greenberg and we discuss how she developed their ‘innovation lab’. We get to hear about her passion for client collaboration, and what AmLaw executives are looking for in new technology tools.
Season 2 Ep. 6: Inside the Greenberg Innovation Lab
Season 2 Ep. 6: Inside the Greenberg Innovation Lab
Season 2 Ep. 6:
Inside the Greenberg Innovation Lab
Marlene Gebauer, the Director of Strategic Legal Insights at Greenberg Traurig joins us on the podcast today. In this episode, Marlene shares how she ended up in her unique role at Greenberg and we discuss how she developed their ‘innovation lab’. We get to hear about her passion for client collaboration, and what AmLaw executives are looking for in new technology tools.

Season 2 Ep. 5: Answering the "So What?" Question
Season 2 Ep. 5:
Answering the “So What?” Question
Today we share our conversation with the Chief Marketing Officer of Winston Strawn, Howard Kravitz. He works us through the past, present, and future of the law firm marketing pitch, and how it is different from the consulting world, and how often marketers at a law firm have many more audiences than just a potential client.

Season 2 Ep. 4:
Lessons from the Big 4
Today we are joined by Vishal Agnihotri, the Chief Knowledge Officer of Hinshaw & Culbertson, an AmLaw 200 law firm. Vishal observes a few different lessons that large law firms can learn from the Big 4, in addition to certain key roles the Big 4 will have a hard time replacing. She also shares her thoughts on the ‘unbundling’ of legal services, and how automation will affect the future of law firms providing value to clients.
Season 2 Ep. 4: Lessons from the Big 4
Season 2 Ep. 4: Lessons from the Big 4
Season 2 Ep. 4:
Lessons from the Big 4
Today we are joined by Vishal Agnihotri, the Chief Knowledge Officer of Hinshaw & Culbertson, an AmLaw 200 law firm. Vishal observes a few different lessons that large law firms can learn from the Big 4, in addition to certain key roles the Big 4 will have a hard time replacing. She also shares her thoughts on the ‘unbundling’ of legal services, and how automation will affect the future of law firms providing value to clients.

Season 2 Ep. 3: Law is Divinity with More Money at Stake
Season 2 Ep. 3:
Law is Divinity with More Money at Stake
Augie Rakow is the co-founder and managing partner of Atrium LLP, a law firm that uses modern technology to provide startups fast, transparent, and predictable legal services. In this episode, we discuss how Atrium plans to change the legal industry, Augie’s view on how legal services ideally should be delivered, and the similarities between his studies at Harvard Divinity School and law practice.

Season 2 Ep. 2:
The Millennial Episode
Today on The Modern Lawyer we speak with JP Box. He’s a lawyer, entrepreneur, author, and millennial. After a career in AmLaw 100 firms, JP left law practice dissatisfied with his experience. He’s concluded that there are clear, simple steps law firms can take to leverage their younger associates in ways that inspire them to do the great quality work expected of them.
Season 2 Ep. 2: The Millennial Episode
Season 2 Ep. 2: The Millennial Episode
Season 2 Ep. 2:
The Millennial Episode
Today on The Modern Lawyer we speak with JP Box. He’s a lawyer, entrepreneur, author, and millennial. After a career in AmLaw 100 firms, JP left law practice dissatisfied with his experience. He’s concluded that there are clear, simple steps law firms can take to leverage their younger associates in ways that inspire them to do the great quality work expected of them.

Season 2 Ep. 1: The Wizard
Season 2 Ep. 1:
The Wizard
Our guest, Oz Benamram, is the Chief Knowledge Officer at White and Case, where he has led their KM program for over 10 years. Oz is a leader in the field and his ideas on technology, law firm economics, and information management are often years ahead of his peers.

Season 1 Ep. 17:
Culture, Mergers, and Metrics
An interview with Beatrice Seravello, who was the chief strategy officer at Blank Rome and Kaye Scholer, and is now a senior executive at Arnold Porter. At Arnold & Porter she is working on the ongoing project of ensuring that the Arnold & Porter and Kaye Scholer merger goes smoothly, both operationally and culturally.
Season 1 Ep. 17: Culture, Mergers, and Metrics
Season 1 Ep. 17: Culture, Mergers, and Metrics
Season 1 Ep. 17:
Culture, Mergers, and Metrics
An interview with Beatrice Seravello, who was the chief strategy officer at Blank Rome and Kaye Scholer, and is now a senior executive at Arnold Porter. At Arnold & Porter she is working on the ongoing project of ensuring that the Arnold & Porter and Kaye Scholer merger goes smoothly, both operationally and culturally.

Season 1 Ep. 16: Gravity Stack: Innovation in the AmLaw 50
Season 1 Ep. 16:
Gravity Stack: Innovation in the AmLaw 50
Our guest is Bryon Bratcher, the Managing Director of Gravity Stack, a wholly owned subsidiary of AmLaw 50 law firm Reed Smith. We speak with Bryon about his journey from the head of the Reed Smith client technology solutions group, which was renamed and spun out as Gravity Stack. Bryon talks to us about the future of the industry, including the threats from the Big Four, consolidation among solutions providers, and the future of revenue generating solutions providers owned entirely by law firms.

Season 1 Ep. 15:
Legal Tech from Scratch
Matthew Stubenberg is an attorney entrepreneur who is now the associate director of Legal Technology at Harvard Law School. So far he has created the NotGuilty App and MD Expungement, two tools that have earned thousands of users. We speak with Matt about what it was like creating apps specifically for lawyers, how he spots legal processes that can be easily automated, and what role he thinks technology and coders, in particular, are going to play in the practice of law.
Season 1 Ep. 15: Legal Tech from Scratch
Season 1 Ep. 15: Legal Tech from Scratch
Season 1 Ep. 15:
Legal Tech from Scratch
Matthew Stubenberg is an attorney entrepreneur who is now the associate director of Legal Technology at Harvard Law School. So far he has created the NotGuilty App and MD Expungement, two tools that have earned thousands of users. We speak with Matt about what it was like creating apps specifically for lawyers, how he spots legal processes that can be easily automated, and what role he thinks technology and coders, in particular, are going to play in the practice of law.

Season 1 Ep. 14: The Innovation Narrative
Season 1 Ep. 14:
The Innovation Narrative
Our guest is Jordan Grotzinger, a shareholder and Co-Chair of the Los Angeles Litigation Practice at Greenberg Traurig. We were honored to host Jordan in our office at Casetext in San Francisco to talk about how attorneys can incorporate technology into their practice at large firms, what trends he is seeing in litigation, and what an “innovation narrative” means at a large firm.

Season 1 Ep. 13:
Revolução! A discussion of Brazil’s Legal Tech Boom
In this episode, we take a look at what is happening in an entirely distinct legal tech ecosystem by taking a trip to Brazil. We see some of the same trends in Brazil, alongside some fascinating differences. Our guests are Bruno Barata, Evy Marques, and Bruno Feigelson, all preeminent figures in the Brazilian Legal Tech community.
Season 1 Ep. 13: Revolução! A discussion of Brazil's Legal Tech Boom
Season 1 Ep. 13: Revolução! A discussion of Brazil's Legal Tech Boom
Season 1 Ep. 13:
Revolução! A discussion of Brazil’s Legal Tech Boom
In this episode, we take a look at what is happening in an entirely distinct legal tech ecosystem by taking a trip to Brazil. We see some of the same trends in Brazil, alongside some fascinating differences. Our guests are Bruno Barata, Evy Marques, and Bruno Feigelson, all preeminent figures in the Brazilian Legal Tech community.

Season 1 Ep. 12: The Chatbot that Saved 15 Million Dollars
Season 1 Ep. 12:
The Chatbot that Saved 15 Million Dollars
In this episode, Anand is joined by Joshua Browder, a software engineer and the Founder of DoNotPay, a robot lawyer startup that helps customers fight parking tickets and obtain refunds from airlines. They talk about chatbots tailored to specific legal problems, the challenges in creating robot lawyers, and how technology can address exploitative industries in pro-consumer ways.

Season 1 Ep. 11:
Stop, Collaborate, and Listen
Scott Bailey is the Global Director of Research Services at Squire Patton Boggs. He comes to us today with a radical, industry-shaking idea: have people sit down and talk. Sometimes, it’s the little things that can change an industry.
Season 1 Ep. 11: Stop, Collaborate, and Listen
Season 1 Ep. 11: Stop, Collaborate, and Listen
Season 1 Ep. 11:
Stop, Collaborate, and Listen
Scott Bailey is the Global Director of Research Services at Squire Patton Boggs. He comes to us today with a radical, industry-shaking idea: have people sit down and talk. Sometimes, it’s the little things that can change an industry.

Season 1 Ep. 10: Innovating Pro Bono
Season 1 Ep. 10:
Innovating Pro Bono
Some estimates show that over 65% of legal needs in the United States are not met because most people simply cannot afford attorneys. Join us for Anand’s conversation with Felicity about problems in the way the legal industry does pro bono work, how technology can be leveraged to fix it, and the access to justice gap that Paladin is helping fill.

Season 1 Ep. 9:
Is Small Law the Future?
Carolyn Elefant, solo attorney and author of the popular blog MyShingle, shares her predictions for how solo practice will change in the next 20 years, including new technologies and business models that are already gaining popularity among solo practitioners.
Season 1 Ep. 9: Is Small Law the Future?
Season 1 Ep. 9: Is Small Law the Future?
Season 1 Ep. 9:
Is Small Law the Future?
Carolyn Elefant, solo attorney and author of the popular blog MyShingle, shares her predictions for how solo practice will change in the next 20 years, including new technologies and business models that are already gaining popularity among solo practitioners.

Season 1 Ep. 8: The Inclusion Rider
Season 1 Ep. 8:
The Inclusion Rider
Frances McDormand ended her Oscars acceptance speech with two words: “inclusion rider.” Attorney Kalpana Kotagal, who actually wrote the inclusion rider, explains what it is, how it came about, and why it will drive diversity and inclusion in Hollywood and beyond.

Season 1 Ep. 7:
Start-to-Finish Litigation
As the Associate GC leading the litigation group at Macy’s, Betty Tierney and her team actually handle much of the company’s litigation themselves — and she’s using that experience to guide her expectations when she works with outside counsel. Learn more about Macy’s unique approach to litigation, find out why Betty believes we’re going to see an increase in alternative fee arrangements over the next 10 years, and more.
Season 1 Ep. 7: Start-to-Finish Litigation
Season 1 Ep. 7: Start-to-Finish Litigation
Season 1 Ep. 7:
Start-to-Finish Litigation
As the Associate GC leading the litigation group at Macy’s, Betty Tierney and her team actually handle much of the company’s litigation themselves — and she’s using that experience to guide her expectations when she works with outside counsel. Learn more about Macy’s unique approach to litigation, find out why Betty believes we’re going to see an increase in alternative fee arrangements over the next 10 years, and more.

Season 1 Ep. 6: The Holy Grail of Legal Tech
Season 1 Ep. 6:
The Holy Grail of Legal Tech
Evan Shenkman, Ogletree Deakins’ Director of Knowledge Management Counsel and Research, describes how his experiences practicing law and building Ogletree’s KM department led him to the “holy grail” of legal technology: a system that can automatically kick off a chain of events involving both external vendors and internal systems whenever a motion is filed.

Season 1 Ep. 5:
What Your Clients Are Thinking
Jason Barnwell, Assistant General Counsel at Microsoft, explains why he tries to structure his relationships with outside counsel as partnerships rather than a supplier or vendor relationship, and the signals he looks for that a firm will be a good partner to him. You’ll also find out why Jason believes “The billable hour is a shackle on innovation and efficiency,” and what Microsoft is moving toward to replace it.
Season 1 Ep. 5: What Your Clients Are Thinking
Season 1 Ep. 5: What Your Clients Are Thinking
Season 1 Ep. 5:
What Your Clients Are Thinking
Jason Barnwell, Assistant General Counsel at Microsoft, explains why he tries to structure his relationships with outside counsel as partnerships rather than a supplier or vendor relationship, and the signals he looks for that a firm will be a good partner to him. You’ll also find out why Jason believes “The billable hour is a shackle on innovation and efficiency,” and what Microsoft is moving toward to replace it.

Season 1 Ep. 4: Old Problems, New Solutions
Season 1 Ep. 4:
Old Problems, New Solutions
When Scott Rechtschaffen thinks “there has to be a better way,” he creates that better way. As a shareholder and later CKO at Littler, Scott has implemented outside-the-box solutions to a number of long-standing problems in legal practice. Find out how he eliminated the annoyance of firmwide RFI emails, made training on workplace regulations actually fun, and more.

Season 1 Ep. 3:
What Your Clients Will Want You to Know About Blockchain
When many of us hear “blockchain,” we think of Bitcoin. But Judy Rinearson, partner at K&L Gates, wants attorneys to know:” On this episode of The Modern Lawyer, find out how applications of blockchain could soon change the way attorneys work. As Judy says, “Your clients are going to want you to know about the blockchain.”
Season 1 Ep. 3: What Your Clients Will Want You to Know About Blockchain
Season 1 Ep. 3: What Your Clients Will Want You to Know About Blockchain
Season 1 Ep. 3:
What Your Clients Will Want You to Know About Blockchain
When many of us hear “blockchain,” we think of Bitcoin. But Judy Rinearson, partner at K&L Gates, wants attorneys to know:” On this episode of The Modern Lawyer, find out how applications of blockchain could soon change the way attorneys work. As Judy says, “Your clients are going to want you to know about the blockchain.”

Season 1 Ep. 2: The "White Whale" of Legal Tech Adoption with Jeff Rovner
Season 1 Ep. 2:
The “White Whale” of Legal Tech Adoption with Jeff Rovner
When Jeff Rovner started working in KM, it was still “this thing that had no name.” Now, KM is at the forefront of some of the most fundamental issues in legal innovation, including Jeff’s own “white whale” of legal tech adoption. Anand talks with Jeff about the evolution of KM, what law firms can learn from the consulting world, and how adoption of legal tech will impact attorneys’ workflows, law firm business models, and more.

Season 1 Ep. 1:
Jean O’Grady
Jean O’Grady shares her journey from an academic reference librarian to Director of Research Services at one of the world’s largest firms. Find out what it was like to transition from a world without the internet (or even Post-Its) to one increasingly focused on innovation, and learn how law librarians, millennials, and AI will shape the future of law.

Season 1 Ep. 1: Jean O'Grady
Season 1 Ep. 1: Jean O'Grady
Season 1 Ep. 1:
Jean O’Grady
Jean O’Grady shares her journey from an academic reference librarian to Director of Research Services at one of the world’s largest firms. Find out what it was like to transition from a world without the internet (or even Post-Its) to one increasingly focused on innovation, and learn how law librarians, millennials, and AI will shape the future of law.

The Modern Lawyer podcast is sponsored by Casetext.